Pattern Puzzle: Pt.2 of a 2 part argument pt.2

Here’s the explanation of the pattern draft posed in yesterday’s pattern puzzle challenge.

Below is your basic front bodice with a pointy shawl collar. Usually shawl collars are round not pointy which is part of what led the confusion explained in this entry. The lines to cut the collar apart to create a fold line for the “second” collar are drawn in. The illustrations get better, sorry about this one.

By the way, I’ve created a pattern piece you can download (57kb), cut and fold up to try it yourself. In this second illustration, you can see I’ve cut along those lines and created an area of fullness that needs to be folded up to form the collar.

I’ll walk you through it step by step. Here the piece is cut out and the folds are made.

Below the “top collar” is folded. Just do the same things you see here.

Below the whole collar has been folded along the roll line laying the collar to rest on the body of the garment.

In the photo below, I’ve inked in the seam line of the collar layers. If you fold this up, it’ll be obvious where you need to join these pieces.

In this last photo, the collar has been curled around to form a back neck shape. Presto, one cool Crines collar!

Actually, this whole thing has one big issue. Technically, everything you see here is the facing. That’s right, the facing. On a shawl or revere collar, the top collar is really the facing. The thing is tho, you do all of this magic stuff working off the front of the body and then you cut it off to form the facing/top collar combination. On the body of the garment, the revers forms the underside of the collar. Therefore, you need to draft this in steps. You wouldn’t repeat these folds on the front of the garment as that would be the undercollar. So, once you’ve attained your desired collar shaping on the body of the garment, you need to trace that off to do the top collar and facing portion. How many of you noticed I drafted this collar on the body of the garment? I thought it would be less confusing to do it like this since you’d have a point of orientation with the body.

Also, because I saw the actual sample, there is one thing I would change about the design. If any of you ever intend to produce this, check in with me after you’ve made your first attempt. It’s kind of complicated to explain unless you have a proto for comparison.

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  1. Gry says:

    Kathleen, this collar doesn’t look exactly like the photo. On the photo, the fold didn’t end where the roll line begins, but rather disappeared behind the roll line. How would you create that effect? This is just to be a grumbler – I really prefer your version.

  2. Valerie Burner says:


    I attributed that to the fact that the fabric looks like a medium-weight wool, and in my opinion, that was too much fabric for that technique to keep the creases where they should be… I think the other thing about that design with a heavy fabric is that it looks as though it would have a tendency to come unfolded and balloon out. It doesn’t seem anchored to me. I love the look though.

  3. Kathleen says:

    Valerie, thanks for articulating what I couldn’t; the problem of keeping the creases fixed (see paragraph 2 under caveat). If I do make this up, I would probably extend that fold line beyond the termination of the roll line (not ending at the break point) because altho it’d increase yield, it could get too messy having all those points ending at the break line. Imo, the Crines collar could have used another iteration, specifically a stitching line on the underside, hidden in the underlap to keep that fold shaped nicely particularly because I’d estimate the wool to have been an 18-22 oz.

    And you’re right, the look is lovely (at least I think so). It is cool to see the folds as sewn to the “larger collar”. It is more impressive in real life. Being black, the photos don’t do it justice.

  4. Kaaren Hoback says:

    OH, look what I missed. Rats.

    I think I understand why you went for one facing piece for the pointed shawl facing with a fold to form the shorter collar. My guess is it would reduce bulk and work well in a light to medium weight wool.

    I would have been lazy and first try drafting the larger collar cut on the front with a separate facing, and the smaller collar with a slightly raised point, narrower width and slightly higher break point, cut two, and simply stack them – at least at first.

    Stacking would create more bulk on the inside edge, bad. But, I would hope that could be trimmed and feathered and provide less bulk on the fold that the darts would contain.

    When I saw this coat on the original post, I noticed it as something I suddenly want and I have a wonderful piece of medium-heavy sage green cashmere. Being heavier I am concerned that the fold would be too bulky and play open. Before I do my final draft, I am going to wait and read all the comments and then make a sample using some cheaper wool.

    I also noticed you have the necessary narrow dart formed for the space between the two collars but do not have a narrow dart on the roll line for the front piece. Was that intentional and why?


  5. Kaaren Hoback says:

    Amending my earlier comment:

    I printed the sample piece and folded it out and automatically assumed ( you know what that word breaks down as…) that the folded area would be stitched from the reverse, not knowing what to call it I claimed it as a “dart”. Wrong of course- and by golly it works beautifully even in heavier goods.

    I would use the shaping dart at the roll line, but that is not part of this puzzle so it is moot.

    I love learning something new even though I am the proverbial “old dog”. A reminder to me that over thinking creates more work and lesser product- the beauty of Kathleen’s method is in the simplicity and clarity of her results.


  6. Lisa B. in Portland says:

    I think that collar is one of the most amazing ever! I would like to see it on a suit jacket as well as a coat, in all kinds of weights of fabrics. But it couldn’t be in something drapey like charmeuse and still hold up correctly, right? Il est très chic, n’est-ce pas? :-)

  7. Elaine Good says:

    I got back online today and spent quite a bit of time looking at your drawings, trying to understand them. FINALLY, I read the text more carefully and noticed this: “How many of you noticed I drafted this collar on the body of the garment?” lol. So the joke was on me!

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